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So Here's the Deal

Achieving $1,600 Per Copy

An F&I manager from New York asks the magazine’s resident F&I pro how achieving a $1,600 per-copy average is even possible. He responds with strategies employed by the Top 25 F&I operations in the nation.

January 10, 2017

This month’s question comes from Mike in Ithaca, N.Y., home of beautiful waterfalls, Cornell University, and the Piggery. Ah, you can almost smell the bacon from here. Mike asks, “I was wondering if you had some thoughts on how some of these dealers are doing $1,600 per car? A quick analysis of 100 deals makes it difficult to imagine how they’re achieving those numbers.”

Let’s take a look at Mike’s analysis below so we can see where he’s coming from. Here’s his final comment on his analysis: “I feel these are excellent numbers, yet we’re not even close to $1,600 per car. What am I missing?”

New Vehicles

60 Retail Units

10 Cash/Outside Liens @ $400PVR              = $  4,000

12 Leases @ $600 PVR                               = $  7,200

38 Financed @ $300 reserve/flat                  = $11,400

24 VSC @ $1000 per VSC                           = $24,000

19 GAP @ $600 per GAP                             = $11,400

10 T&W @ $500 per T&W                             = $  5,000


Used Vehicles

40 Retail Units

10 Cash/Outside Liens @ $400PVR              = $  4,000

30 Financed @ $600 reserve                        = $18,000

17 VSC @ $1000 per VSC                           = $17,000

15 GAP @ $600 per GAP                             = $  9,000

11 T&W @ $500 per T&W                             = $  5,500


Total Income New & Used                          $116,500

Total Income Per Vehicle Retailed                 $  1,165

Mike, based on your assumptions, I would agree those are excellent numbers. With that said, there are many different ways dealers can and do achieve $1,600 per copy. In fact, in 2015, the Top 25 dealer groups, according to the Automotive News Data Center, averaged between $1,686 and $2,228 per copy in F&I income. And they don’t make those numbers up. I know, because some of them are our clients.

So how do they do it? By selling more F&I products and charging more for those products. You cannot possibly achieve $1,600 per copy averaging one product per customer and $1,000 in profit per service contract. In fact, one of the most important indicators of F&I department performance today is products per vehicle retailed (PPVR).

In your example, Mike, your dealership sold 53 F&I products on 60 new cars, and 43 F&I products on 40 used cars. That adds up to 96 products on 100 retail units, or a PPVR of .96. Top-performing F&I managers typically own a two-plus PPVR. That’s why most dealers offer five or six F&I products, such as environmental protection, extended maintenance, theft deterrent products, key replacement, paintless dent repair or windshield chip repair. And they package one or more of those products together on their menu. It’s virtually impossible to hit those numbers if you only offer three products and you’re step-selling each one.

To further boost F&I income, some dealers will also pre-install a theft-deterrent product on every vehicle. They then include that income in their F&I numbers, because F&I managers are expected to justify and sell it. Other dealers have their own reinsurance companies or include an internal pack on F&I products. Obviously, they have to account for that income on their financial statement, but not in F&I income for commission or performance purposes. The same goes for doc fees and accessory sales.

Other dealers have the sales department include and sell one or more F&I products in the initial payment quote from the desk. These products are disclosed to the customer, explained and sold upfront by the salesperson. This revenue is still included on the financial statement as F&I income, since sales managers are paid equally on front-end and back-end gross. In these stores, you’ll typically see huge F&I numbers and minimal sales department gross. While this may look good in the rankings, the numbers you sent are a much better indication of actual F&I department performance.

Mike, I hope this answers your question. You can watch my video response to Mike’s question and check out the Piggery and its famous bacon by going to my So Here’s the Deal blog at The video includes even more math, as well as a goal sheet you can use to figure out what it takes to average $1,600 per copy. And don’t forget to submit your own video for a chance to get your question answered and a free YETI. Because it’s a beautiful day to help a customer … and eat some bacon!

Got a question or objection for Ron? Use your mobile phone to record a brief video (shot landscape style!) of your question and upload it to


  1. 1. Dan [ January 14, 2017 @ 08:46AM ]

    [I] To further boost F&I income, some dealers will also pre-install a theft-deterrent product on every vehicle. They then include that income in their F&I numbers, because F&I managers are expected to justify and sell it [/I]

    Does that mean that a customer has the ability to opt out of said theft deterrent product and get the price deduced accordingly?

  2. 2. Ron Reahard [ January 14, 2017 @ 08:15PM ]

    Great question! It depends on the product and the dealer. If it's a relatively low cost product, like etch, they may reduce simply reduce the price and absorb the cost, since they don't have to provide the policy that includes a cash benefit if the vehicle is stolen and not recovered.

    If it's a product with a higher cost, like an alarm system, they may remove it if the customer declines to purchase it. Typically, only F&I products with high customer acceptance rates in a particular market are pre-installed. Thanks for writing!

  3. 3. Tim Burke [ January 23, 2017 @ 11:51AM ]

    This was a nice illustration on PPVR. I was curious your thoughts about Credit Life and Accident Health Insurance?

  4. 4. Ron Reahard [ January 24, 2017 @ 08:32AM ]

    Thanks for your comments. I really wish more dealers offered credit insurance. Unfortunately, because of reduced commissions and licensing requirements in states like CA it's almost non-existent. It's a great product and offers real customer value. In some markets, with some dealers, it still does very well, with good penetration levels. If the dealer believes in credit insurance, F&I managers sell it. If not, they don't.

  5. 5. Joe [ January 25, 2017 @ 01:35PM ]

    Hey Ron, Great Article! I'm looking for the goal sheet and I can't seem to find it on the website or article. Could you copy a link please?

  6. 6. Dennis Werner [ January 26, 2017 @ 12:12PM ]

    Joe. In the video the guy clearly says "CALL or EMAIL me." So You should probably call or email him or his company.

  7. 7. Rick [ January 27, 2017 @ 07:40AM ]

    Can I get a copy of you're goal sheet to achieve $1600.00 per copy. Great video!

  8. 8. Ron Reahard [ January 27, 2017 @ 12:18PM ]

    Joe, Dennis, Rick-
    Thanks for your comments. We've had numerous requests for the goal sheet. Please give me a call or email me at, and I'll be glad to send it to you.

  9. 9. MIKE [ January 31, 2017 @ 11:28AM ]

    I'm confused how there's any profit on GAP in NY state ...

  10. 10. Will Slattery [ February 02, 2017 @ 02:02PM ]

    Great video Ron with a very valuable message, your average should be over one product per retail customer.

  11. 11. Ron Reahard [ February 03, 2017 @ 03:11PM ]

    Mike- I understand your confusion re: GAP profit in NY. Dealership is not in NY, even though writer is. Thanks for writing. -Ron

  12. 12. Ron Reahard [ February 03, 2017 @ 03:18PM ]

    Will- I agree, if you're not doing at least 1.0+ PPVR, you're not helping every customer. Thanks for your comments! -Ron

  13. 13. Joe Martinez [ March 03, 2017 @ 12:20PM ]

    I would like to get a copy of the spread sheet. I need to increase my PPVR, we are one of ten stores and our stores seems to be averaging only about 50 units and one full time F & I mgr and one part time. Thanks for all that you do.


  14. 14. Ron Reahard [ March 06, 2017 @ 07:14AM ]

    Joe- Please send your email address, and I'll get it right to you. My office email is Thanks!

  15. 15. Jim McCroskey [ December 29, 2017 @ 08:00AM ]

    Mike's breakdown is interesting. You state that he is from NY. You can't sell GAP for a profit in F&I in NY but he lists $600 per GAP contract on 34 contracts as profit? Please explain.

  16. 16. Jim McCroskey [ January 19, 2018 @ 02:10PM ]

    The Mike is an agent from New York who works with multiple dealerships in NY, NJ, and PA. My fault, I should have clarified that. Thanks for reading... and writing!

  17. 17. pete [ March 20, 2018 @ 08:10PM ]

    Price all sevice contracts $1500 over cost. Offer more products...Simo is great example. If presented correctly you'll see45% penetration @ $500 profit.

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